(Tia starts the session off
quoting her three daughters)
Tia: "I donít want pigtails in my hair." "I want
pigtails my hair." "I look silly with little
pigtails in my hair."
Russ: Iíll take your word for it. I've never seen
you with pigtails so.....
Tia: no, I just mimicking.
Russ: I know. Oh, so your nightís going kind of fun
Russ: oh good. Well, never a dull moment.
Tia: well theyíre always like this when their dad
picks them up from the crŤche.
Russ: something about pigtails?
Tia: well they wonít say no if he wants to put them
in pigtails which they look cute in.
Russ: yeah, all kids look cute in pigtails.
Tia: uh-huh. Yeah, he calls them pig's tails I call
the horse's tails.
Russ: I never understood either one so no worries
there. So whatís up tonight love?
Tia: ohh....okay we online?
Russ: yep, ready to rock Ďn roll.
Tia: okay. Okay itís a quiet night, we donít have
Omal, we just have us girls.
Russ: thatís a good night.
Tia: uh-huh. Okay now, so you can be aware ofÖÖ.
Russ: oh God.
Russ: ashtray got dumped, disgusting habit.
Tia: I quite agree.
Russ: oh well.
Tia: he should be made clean it up.
Russ: too late.
Tia: okay, back to business, where was I? Oh yes, so
you can declare or be aware of when we're going to
declare a Defcon advancement. Okay for Defcon three,
a drop of 150 points with, in three different
locations civil disobedience and one large-scale
such as major forest fires, some ecological disaster
somewhere such as a forest fire, major oil slick,
heat wave, torrential rain in some major food
producing area. Okay?
Tia: so we have those three steps. 150 drop, three
locations of civil disobedience, some kind of
natural environmental problems such as gasÖ..
Tia: hurricanes in major crop producing areas, okay?
Tia: something that will damage the harvest. For
example, Mark was complaining about the price of red
bell peppers. Guess how much red bell peppers are?
Russ: I donít know, a buck thirty nine?
Tia: this time last year, yes.
Russ: how much are they now?
Tia: $3.29 and theyíre not even good ones.
Russ: thatís quite a jump. Yeah but El NiŮo
pretty well wiped out the red bell pepper crop.
Tia: uh-huh. So, taking El NiŮo as a one
environmental disaster okay?
Tia: itís affected the Central ValleyÖÖ.
Tia: all the way down itís affected all the way up
to the Yakima Valley all the way along okay?
Tia: okay, so that is one environmental disaster.
Tia: okay, now we havenít had three locations at the
same time of civil disobedience. We did have a drop
of how many 209 pointsÖ..
Tia: with a recovery today of I think it was 178 but
I donít have the figures on my hands at the moment.
Okay, so weíre part of the way there. Now if thereís
another environmental problem and a drop of 150
points plus, plus three locations of civil
disobedience, then we would declare a Defcon three.
Tia: okay, for Defcon twoÖ..
Tia: okay, it is either a drop of 500 pointsÖ.
Tia: in one dayÖ.
Tia: or a continuous downward trend for a period of
two weeks where it loses approximately up to 800
points with six locations of civil disobedience, not
all the same time but again in the space of two
Russ: all right.
Tia: plus two major areas of environmental damage
regardless whether it is crop producing or not. Now
they do have to beÖ
(Tia takes a break to scold the cats in Durondedunn)
Tia: they have to be at least major forest fires,
major forest fires like you had in the far east in
Malaysia and all that areaÖ..
Tia: the Philippines and so on, or major, major
earthquakes in large populous areas of massive
millions or billions exceeding $11 billion which is
bigger than the San Francisco earthquake of Ď89.
Russ: all right.
Tia: Defcon one is a drop of a thousand in either at
one time or over a week, itís more likely over a
week. Okay because when the market reaches 500 what
happens? They close it down.
Tia: so it have to be a drop of a thousand
in the space of a week, six civil disobediences of
massive proportions such as the scene in JakartaÖ.
Tia: not all in the same location, theyíve got to be
spread around all over the planet and four natural
disasters of considerable proportion over the period
of two weeks exceeding again $11 billion each. You
Russ: thatís a bunch. So that's the three.
Tia: uh-huh. Weíre in Defcon four at the moment but
weíve been watching and thinking about Defcon three
for a while just because the market is being a
little bit on the jittery side and the fact of the
ongoing El NiŮo thing as you rightly pointed out and
the problems in the far east with the nuclear tests
and everything. Itís something thatís kind of
pushing it back that way however I have seen a
general trend in the times that Iíve been doing my
map analyzing work as department head of summer
times when you have the monsoons and the heat from
late winter, spring till late autumnÖ.
Tia: is always a time of activity, intense activity
as a majority of the populace lives in the northern
hemisphere, thatís where all problems seem to be
generally located. You donít hear of major disasters
exceeding $11 billion in somewhere like Lima Peru do
Russ: no, nor are you likely to.
Tia: no. So, the trend of the summertime is
something that is always jittery because in the
northern hemisphere is so crowded and there are so
many billions of people in the northern hemisphere
all concentrated on average about 500 miles from the
coast in. So thereís a lot of pressure on those
areas and of course those areas happen to be the
most fertile areas as well because of all the
alluvial plains and glaciation and so on. Stop at
the oceans and deposit all their nutrients and
goodness on the soil. And of course all the
mountains are based inland and they all wash down
into the oceans depositing silt and sediment and all
good stuff all across the alluvial
Tia: so that 500 mile corridor where everybody
happens to liveÖ..actually you could probably narrow
it to 250 but 500 is a nice figure. So you see the
problem, with all thoseÖÖI donít like that look of
Tia: the stubble.
Russ: well I donít think itís a permanent thing, I
think heís going shave it off after this weekís over
Tia: I think he ought to shave it off sooner.
Luckily when he comes up here heís clean-shaven
otherwise I wouldnít let him into my bed, I would
say, ďgo shave that stuff off.Ē Okay, now do you
Russ: yeah, for the most part, this is stuff that
weíre looking at in the futureÖ.
Russ: do we have an idea how far in the future?
Tia: Iím waiting to get the okay to release that
kind of information from the Council.
Russ: okay. Now somebody might accuse you of being
Russ: and well with good reason. I mean in times
past you have predicted stuff that due to things
that happened in the White House have not happenedÖ.
Russ: and so therefore some people worry that
possibly we're jumping the gun and stuff even though
I know weíre notÖ..
Tia: uh-huh but you have received emails from people
saying that thatís the impression that theyíre
Russ: theyíre just a general impression I would get
if I was reading stuff like that.....
Russ: and I was wondering how you would respond to
someone like that.
Tia: well okay my response is itís better to be
prepared than to be caught with your panties down.
Tia: itís better to have a plan of saving money,
saving food, being cautious, being careful, being
prepared for whatever comes. If it never comes
thatís wonderful, that is great, but if it comes and
when it comes you will be prepared. There is no set
date, people have often have made the mistake of
setting a date on when things are going to happen,
when the worldís going end blah blah blah, when
thereís going to be a nuclear war etc. etc..
Tia: and are any of those groups that have predicted
the coming return of Christ, the nuclear war, are
they still around?
Tia: uh-huh but theyíre fading away because they
made the simple, simple mistake of putting a date.
There is no date on the Apocalypse, there is no
Apocalypse, it just gets worse and worse and worse
until people pull her fingers out of their tush and
get their act together and realize that theyíve got
to pull together. Whether theyíre in Africa, or
theyíre African-Americans and white Americans, one
groupís members are the Black Panthers, the other
group's members of the triple K gang, theyíve all
got to realize that they have to pull together
otherwise none of them are going to survive as a
group. They have to drop their grudges and say,
ďokay, just because the skin's a different color, we
all bleed red blood, we all have hearts and livers
and lungs and brains, we have to get on.Ē
Russ: well and thatís it, pulling together has never
been manís strong suit.
Tia: no and it wasnít on my planet.
Russ: and it wasnít on Sirius.
Russ: for example, on Sirius it was one group of
Russ: who got together for a common causeÖ..
Russ: 120,000 to be exact.
(Ed. Note: it was actually a 144,000)
Russ: on Durondedunn, I donít know the story there
but Iím sure it was a similar story.
Tia: well actually it was after the men decimated
themselves because of the redheads and the blondes
and the black hairs and the brown hairs, they all
lived in different parts of the planet. Skin color
never meant anything to us. So your skinís darker or
lighter or whatever, it was hair color was kind of
the racial difference. All the blonde people lived
in the cold climates, all the redheads happened to
live in the kind of middle climates where it would
be warm or cold. And then of course the dark-haired
ones lived further South in the more hot zones.
Russ: hmm, okay. And so thatís when it became
Tia: pretty much after that that we realized that we
had to get together and work together and then it
was those that lived in the cold climates wanted a
bigger area from those that lived in the temperate
zones and so on. And thatís when we women had our
bloody wars, it wasn't over hair color or stature,
it was over land, much like you had.
Tia: and our wars were much more bloody then the
males had, much more bloody, much more ferocious.
Russ: hmmm. Well you didnít go through that
Russ: so all you can do is read the history books on
Tia: uh-huh, yes.
Russ: hmmm. Well someday I'll read about our history
books and how everything was nice and peaceful until
all hell broke loose.
Tia: name me a day when itís been peaceful on your
Russ: locally or worldly?
Russ: yeah, never happen.
Tia: I think it was Christmas Day 1967.
Russ: I donít think so.
Tia: Iím joking.
Russ: of course but it's just something that all
planetís goes through.
Tia: uh-huh, itís a matter of evolvement, evolving
from a warlike planet such as your planet or my
planet or Sirius and realizing that warfare does not
solve everything. The bloodshed of women fighting
for land and men and so on is not right. The ratio
on my planet of women to men is still about three or
four to one.
Tia: at one time, men on your planet would love
this, the ratio was thirty to one.
Russ: women to men?
Tia: thirty women vying for one man.
Russ: poor guys would be worn out.
Tia: well thatís when they started to become docile.
Russ: yeah I would be. I wouldnít have any energy to
do anything else but be docile.
Tia: uh-huh pretty much so and then it became a
genetic thing and finally thatís how they ended up.
Tia: seeing men that are so much a part of your
everyday existence being the dominant ones, the
thing is that if youíre not careful, you may go the
Russ: hmmm, it's possible.
Tia: the thing is on my planet is that lesbians or
lesbianism or being bisexual is not really frowned
Tia: itís not frowned upon at all, itís something
Russ: it seems it would be a natural course of
Tia: yes it is actually. But in my day and ageÖ.
Tia: itís still reasonably common but itís not
something that you see every day and it's accepted.
Russ: well Iím sure someday we'll find out about
peace and love.
Tia: yes hopefully.
Tia: itís hard coming from, as I keep on saying, a
garden planet and seeing what you people are doing
to your planet.
Russ: well there is an answer.
Russ: I donít know the answer but I know there's an
Tia: of course thereís an answer.
Russ: I think the answerís in the Great Pyramid.
Tia: I donít know, I donít know.
Russ: I just think it holds a key. Should I let her
Russ: why? What's she saying?
Tia: theyíve got to learn patience, theyíve got to
learn that you canít have access to everywhere. You
see, the way I see it is that a matriarchal society
has the advantage over a patriarchal society because
there are times when we women canít fight. Six
months out of a year maybe weíre unable to fight
because weíre busy giving birth so that we
understand in more detail the rhythmic cycles of the
Tia: we have religious festivalsÖ..
Tia: where we have religious battles.
Tia: one religious order against another or one
province against another led by the religious order
of that area.
Tia: and the religious battles will be fought until
somebody is either seriously injured or dies and
fortunately theyíre not very often. I think I
remember seeing three of them. One when I was very
little, one when I was not quite a teenager and then
one when I was 15......
Tia: I was 14 when I saw that one and I wouldíve
been delighted for it to be my turn to join in. Itís
a big free-for-all, we're dressed, weíre wearing
protective gearing but we have these huge, huge
battles ofÖ.Ö..well not huge, two, three thousand
people a sideÖÖ
Tia: where we pound on each other until somebody
gets seriously injured or is killed and all the
bloodshed is kind of a gift back to the soil, back
to the mother.
Russ: that's a bit violent.
Tia: yes but itís a controlled violence releasing
all that tension and pressure.
Russ: hmm. Well the Romans had their gladiators, I
suppose thatís good for you guys.
Tia: yes in a way but itís all the stress and
tension that builds up is released in the festival
and of course afterwards thereís a whole load of
Russ: yeah of course.
Tia: uh-huh. Itís a rhythmic cycle of life and
Russ: hmm, well like I say, itís not the first time
Iíve heard of that happening.
Tia: no and I believe it still happens on your
planet in Sandalwood,
the island of Sandalwood, I believe they call it the
Russ: hmm, Iím not sure on that fact but I'll take
your word for it. Hmm, well, we have our National
Football League and France has got the World Cup and
so on and so forth.
Tia: yes, soccer, apparently a long protracted war
is a lot less damaging than one World Cup series.
Russ: thatís what I understand also.
Russ: now since the human race is tied so closely
into the earthÖ..
Russ: itself, how close does the earth actually come
to affecting peopleís moods and actions?
Tia: oh very, very close. Okay letís take a area
that you are familiar with, Los Angeles.
Tia: okay, during the winter what is crime rates
Russ: I donít know.
Tia: itís less during the winter because everybody
doesnít want to get rained on and they donít want to
get wet and the air is blowing all the time and it
doesnít get so smoggy and itís not so hot.
Tia: okay, during the summer whatís it like?
Russ: itís been a long time, I assume the crime rate
goes up from what youíre saying.
Tia: dramatically because A, it gets terribly hot
and when people get hot what do they get?
Tia: uh-huh and when people get irritated they hurt
Russ: hmm, interesting.
Tia: uh-huh. So there is a direct correlation with
the planet and if itís hot or if the planet or the
ground is cold.
Russ: hmm, thatís interesting.
Tia: uh-huh. After all, when itís raining, nobody's
going to go out and do drive-by shootings unless
they have a real grudge.
Russ: true. Unfortunately, we have more grudges than
Tia: yes, unfortunately.
Russ: I see what you mean.
Tia: uh-huh. So it is something that is very
rhythmic and cyclical to do with the planet's
tension, tension in an area. Have you ever been in a
place where it is just alive and buzzing?
Tia: and have you been to the same area and itís
been absolutely still and cold?
Russ: I havenít been in that same place twice.
Tia: uh-huh but youíll find that itís a direct
correlation to what is going on in the area and the
climate and how the ground feels.
Russ: well for example, prior to an earthquake, is
there more violence?
Tia: no not really.
Russ: how about after an earthquake?
Tia: because having survived a major earthquake,
people are missing items, their TV's are damaged,
their houses are damaged and they go out and loot.
Tia: itís to do with the old adage of those that
have and those that donít have.
Russ: so this ties in a lot with what youíre talking
Russ: for your DefconísÖ.
Russ: due to the fact that there is a civil strife
and then thereís an earthquakeÖ.
Russ: that would fit right in there.
Tia: but it doesnít quite work that way.
Russ: what if thereís three civil strife's, one
earthquake and then the market goes down because of
Tia: itís very unlikely to happen that way.
Russ: so itís not all threeÖ..not two and then
Russ: it's all at the same time.
Tia: theyíre kind of mixed together, circumstantial
Russ: so it could happen like that?
Tia: it could.
Tia: but normally the way that it works is the
market goes down, thereís civil disobedience and
possibly, we hope not, but some kind of a natural
Tia: which kind of pushes it or the market goes
down, thereís a natural disaster and there happens
to be civil disobedience. All these things together
because the marketÖÖ
Russ: so thereís a natural disaster, the civil
disobedience and the market goes down.
Tia: well the reason is when the market goes down
Tia: thereís not as much money circulating right?
Tia: which could trigger civil disobedience. If
there is a natural disaster, forest fire,
earthquake, avalanche, whateverÖÖ.
Russ: Rodney King trials.
Tia: okay? Then that could be triggered by an
earthquake, the market, forest fires, etc. you see?
Tia: you see the civil disobedience is more of an
Russ: yeah the civil disobedience, for example as
with the Rodney King trial, is just an example how
easy people can be lit off.
Tia: oh most certainly.
Russ: in fact if I remember right, wasnít there an
earthquake or something about that point?
Tia: what the Northridge one?
Russ: around the Rodney King trial thing?
Tia: no it was only a little one.
Russ: but had the market gone down at the same time?
Tia: it was only a little earthquake. Donít forget
what one of the criteria is, got to be a large
Russ: Northridge wasnít that small.
Tia: no, I think it only made about 3 billion.
Tia: weíre talking 11 billion.
Russ: okay. Hmmm, all righty fair enough.
Tia: uh-huh, okay, so you got all that right?
Russ: got all that.
Tia: okay, do you understand?
Russ: yes I do.
Tia: any questions?
Russ: not a one.
(Tia says goodbye in Durondedunn)
Russ: bye love.
is the last speaker on this side)
Russ: hello love.
Karra: how much do we have left on this side?
Russ: let's see, we got about half a tape, a little
less than half.
Russ: how you doing sweetheart?
Karra: Iím doing okay.
Karra: Iím worried.
Karra: Iím worried.
Russ: what are you worried about?
Karra: are you happy?
Karra: but are you maintaining that even keel?
Russ: for the most part, I would say at least Iím
being able to achieve something Iíve always wanted
Russ: and to get to that goal, this is one of those
times where Iíve got to push myself.
Karra: uh-huh now last night, I was listening to you
talking to Mark.
Russ: at the restaurant?
Karra: Mark kind of oh-hummed as normalÖ..
Russ: yeah of course.
Karra: maintaining his neither positive nor
negative, just that even keelÖ.
Karra: you were excitedÖ.
Karra: you were very energized.
Karra: even though Iím worried about you working too
hard, itís for a good purpose. Iím not going to tell
you to back off and not work so hard, that would be
Karra: Iím not going to tell you what you should or
should not do, I will just do what I normally do
Russ: nag me to death.
Russ: well I know darling, we had a long talk about
that this morning.
Karra: uh-huh, I donít nag, I advise.
Russ: I know, I joke with you.
Karra: I know. But if I didnít advise, I wouldnít be
doing my job.
Russ: thatís right.
Karra: the most important thing is the fact that I
love you, youíre my twin soul and working for that
goal, that objective, that purpose is so important,
itísÖÖ..you work now and you work very, very hard
now for five, 10 years. After that itís plain
Russ: I wonít make it five, 10 years.
Karra: hey, positive thinking.
Russ: thatís true.
Karra: be positive.
Russ: but I look at it this way, Iím not looking at
five or 10 years down the road.....
Russ: Iím looking at five or 10 months down the
road. I see the light at the end of the tunnel right
Russ: I see the point where what Iím doing now takes
me in what I want to do later which is basically be
able to prepare and be comfortable in my
preparations for the future.....
Russ: be able to just relax and hey, if Iím working,
at least Iím relaxing and doing what I love to do.
Karra: exactly, exactly.
Russ, right now for the next two weeks Iím going to
Karra: uh-huh but what Iím saying is that itís
whether or not we go into at the moment from what
Tia says we're kind of A, B right?
Karra: okay, letís say it stays A, B right?
Karra: which means that nothing major is going to
Karra: then all this hard work can be used for the
Karra: making things more comfortable on the long
Karra: but, if it slides into B or B, C, then you
have this setup that can be used almost more
immediately then what you were planning. And if it
slips into C, then so what, you're going to be too
Karra: to worry about it. So A, B is the ideal one
that we want right?
Karra: the one where things stay pretty much the
same and 10 years down the road youíre sitting back
playing golf on the 17th tee at Sawgrass with your
house that overlooks the golf course.
Russ: yeah right, okay, but theoretically yes.
Karra: but you see what Iím saying?
Russ: right, okay.
Karra: didnít you say that you wanted a house near
the 17th at Sawgrass on one occasion?
Russ: no, I never say that.
Karra: no I think it was Avenel actually.
Russ: couldíve been. Now hereís the other thingÖ.
Russ: and you just brought this up and I just
realized it is that if okay, letís say we go into B,
Russ: okay? Then in that case our situation is still
good because people are going to need our servicesÖ.
Russ: for informationÖ..
Russ: for relaying stuff that needs to be relayed.
Russ: situation C is something where all of a sudden
we got a barter thing going.
Russ: and we have services that we are well-known
for and can provideÖ..
Russ: no matter what happens.
Russ: and people will come to us for the information
and for the technical data and stuff that they need.
Karra: uh-huh and thatís when you plan in advance
when you see it happening that way, you buy a
generator for each computer.
Russ: good call.
Karra: uh-huh, because you will be able to print up
news sheets which will be highly sought afterÖ
Karra: you can print up flyers, handbills, etc. all
for little favors.
Karra: "I print up a 100 news sheets for you, I want
a thing of paper", is it a bolt?
Karra: a ream.
Russ: a ream.
Karra: okay you want a ream of paper for that.
Russ: yeah, I mean on all this stuff even after if
everything happens, itís still trade-able goods.
Karra: oh yeah, uh-huh.
Russ: more so.
Karra: yeah. But it's...
Russ: videoconferencing I think is going to be our
biggest point at one point.
oh yeah, I know Mark's been toiling with the idea
for quite a while.
Russ: I think video conferencing and getting people
hooked on visually across the world will be
something that we'll be able to take well and true
that's wonderful, how much do those cameras cost?
Russ: cheap, a hundred bucks.
bucks plus what's the software?
Russ: it comes with it.
bucks and all the software is in it?
(Karra finishes up speaking
from the previous side)
is that the natives?
Russ: could be.
theyíre getting restless huh?
Russ: I suppose, we havenít heard from
them in a while, I guess we were due for a
little bit here and there.
uh-huh. Okay, how much time we got left
sir, Iíve got the Bunster to put on?
okay, Iíll put the Bunster on.
the Funster, Bunster.
Russ: the Funster, Bunster.
(Tia makes her last transfer of this session)
(Tia says hi in Durondedunn)
Russ: hi Tia.
Tia: okay, putting the Bunster on.
Tia: weíre putting Bunny on.
(Bunny is in for a last
session before heading back to college on Sirius)
Russ: so howís it going sweetheart?
Bunny: itís going good.
Bunny: oh guess how I integrated my personalities?
Bunny: I just accepted them.
Bunny: uh-huh, I still have both aspects as part
of me but they're fully integrated. I enjoy all
the little quirks and things that those two have.
(Leah and Lyka)
Russ: well you sound much better Iíll tell you.
Russ: sound like a vastly improved Bunster.
Bunny: and very horny Bunny as wellÖÖÖBunny.
Russ: sorry, Bunny.
Bunny: thank you.
Russ: Iím so used to the Bunny Monster.
Bunny: uh-huh, Bunny Monster's fine, Bunster no.
Bunster in SirianÖ..
Russ: you mean thereís a Sirian connotation to
Russ: youíre kidding me.
Bunny: is subservient.
Russ: youíre joking me. There is a Sirian word
Bunny: bun ster. Not Bunster, bun ster.
Russ: still, thatís pretty dang close.
Bunny: uh-huh. Thatís why I say no, Iím not
Russ: of course not, now that I know.
Bunny: I think the thing would beÖ..Karraís
looking at me strange, itís a lowland sea
areaÖÖ..itís actually the area Iím from.
Bunny: basically it means subservient property
Russ: well no wonder.
Bunny: which Iím not quite sure what that would be
Russ: Karra wouldnít know about those because
sheís not from there.
Bunny: no but it's subservient and property of, a
chattel, which I donít know what the common word
would be that you have.
Russ: it would be slave.
Bunny: which is?
Russ: a kept person, owned person I guess you
Bunny: thereís nothing wrong with being kept but
owned is no.
Russ: yeah, owned I guess would be the word you
could say, like cattle.
Bunny: yes, thatís basically what itís like.
Russ: right okay.
Bunny: so what do you want to know?
Russ: well I want to know how your timeís being
spent down here in your secluded sabbatical from
work and college and all that kind of stuff?
Bunny: well I did quite a bit of walking whilst I
was trying to integrate my personalities.
Bunny: uh-huh, went out for long walks. Actually
the thing is I actually enjoyed not being
Russ: why? Is that a problem up where you're at?
Bunny: uh-huh. Actually I think I look good in
bright red hair, that bright redÖ..I donít like
wearing contacts making my eyes as light as green
that they are. I think Iíll keep my eyes natural
but I do like this light red.
Bunny: uh-huh, it does set off my skin tone real
Russ: hmm excellentÖ.
Russ: and well it should.
Bunny: yeah. I do like having longer hair too,
Iíve let my hair grow.
Russ: well goodÖ.
Russ: actually it would probably look better for
Russ: well, everything is going well then?
Russ: excellent, excellent, looking forward to
your trip back?
Bunny: yeah uh-huh, Iím going to spend two weeks
with the family.
Russ: oh good.
Bunny: and then, in SeptemberÖ..
Bunny: I have two whole months.
Russ: well you going to spend them here at the
Bunny: Iím going to spend probably October time on
Russ: hmm, that will be fun.
Bunny: uh-huh. Spend all of October...Ö(sighs in
Russ: so is your new girlfriend base personnel I
Russ: oh sheís back on Sirius?
Bunny: yeah uh-huh, sheís actuallyÖ...
Russ: missing you horribly I hope?
Bunny: sheís a graduate. Well she has a boyfriend
Russ: so not missing you horribly.
Bunny: actually heís a nice guy, he just didnít
understand the fact that I was having
Russ: well not many people could.
Bunny: no, she was very tender about the whole
Russ: I mean the thing is, I mean anybody talking
to you would still think that youíre hyper
Bunny: except for when I was in the Lyka mode
where I was very aggressive.
Bunny: pounded somebodyís face for no reason
Bunny: actually I think he was hitting on me and I
didnít like the way that he was hitting on me.
Russ: well thereís class and there's taste and
then thereís classless and tasteless.
Bunny: thinking back on it, I couldíve got rid of
him just by giving him the kiss off instead of
just turning around and whooping his ass.
Russ: well, you probably have something where
people think that maybe a kind word and a good
comment might actually get something like a
session with you probably.
Bunny: well he was very blatant, he said, "how
much for you?"
Russ: hmm, well even down here thatís tasteless.
Russ: everywhere thatís tasteless.
Bunny: uh-huh but I have been known to go for that
kind of offer and be just asÖÖif Iím really
hornyÖÖjust as upfront. I did it for a guy, he
offered me 10 acres of land for a afternoon.
Russ: hmmm. Well the thing is whatís un-excusable
is you're both telepaths.
Russ: down here, itís tastelessÖ.
Russ: and weíre not even telepaths down here.
Russ: up there where youíre telepaths, thatís
Bunny: it was on the I-mode.
Russ: thatís even worse.
Bunny: yeah but the guy that gave me 10 acres,
hey, he didnít even last two hours.
Russ: well, you ever go visit your acreage?
Bunny: uh-huh, itís nice acreage.
Russ: well thatís good.
Bunny: uh-huh. It actually abuts on toÖÖabout half
of it has a whole load of blue flowers on it.
Russ: well, there you go, itís an investment
property at that point then.
Bunny: uh-huh, he didnít even know that, he just
thought it was mountain stuff. I went up there,
heíd never been up there.
Russ: oh, inherited land.
Bunny: uh-huh. So I went up there and checked it
out and Iím walking around the property perimeter
and Iíve got out my guide and it was sort of like
I come across all these blue flowers that are just
budding and Iím going, ďhmmmĒ and I follow the
guide and I follow the guide and half an acre of
it is blue flowers.
Russ: wow, youíre a blue flower farmer now.
Bunny: I had approximately 12 dozen produced from
Russ: really? ThatísÖ..
Bunny: this year if Iíd been farming it instead of
letting it go natural I wouldíve taken a loss
because we got three crops out of it.
Russ: wow really?
Bunny: uh-huh and they weren't even that good.
Bunny: I tried to use them as a cure for my
Bunny: and it just made me worse.
Russ: we have the same problem down here with
Bunny: uh-huh, I just went from one personality to
another a lot faster.
Bunny: I remember on one occasion being so
confused by what was going on I just sat in my
room and cried all night.
Russ: anyway, good to have you back Bunny.
Bunny: uh-huh yeah, Iím back but I still have that
aspect but theyíre controlled.
Russ: well thatís good. Like I say, itís probably
Bunny: oh yeah, I think it has.
Russ: okay sweetheart, have fun.
Russ: go nuts, we'll see you tomorrow.
Bunny: okay, bye.
(Kiri stands in for Tia as ring mistress)
Russ: hi Tia.
Russ: busy night tonight?
Kiri: I think Tiaís going to be very busy.
Russ: ahh, whoís this?
Russ: is this Kiri?
Russ: hi Kiri.
Russ: yeah, sounds like it.
Kiri: yeah. She started walking towards the
pyramid and Bunny just leapt out and pushed to the
ground kissing her all over and sheís not fighting
Russ: well no, nobody fights Bunny off.
Kiri: uh-huh and Karraís laughing. I donít think
Karra knows what Bunnyís up to.
Russ: sheíll figure it out, Karraís a smart girl.
Kiri: uh-huh. Okay.....
Kiri: let me put on the last speaker. We have the
time I believe, you want to check?
Russ: let's check. You better make it quick.
(Leah makes her return as a
Leah: hey Russ.
Russ: hey, whatís up Leah?
Leah: oh usual stuff, watching my sister trying to
seduce your bond mate.
Russ: whatís trying mean? Thereís nothing trying
Russ: so how you doing darling?
Leah: Iím doing good.
Russ: yeah? How has life been treating you like
Leah: pretty good, pretty good, I miss my love
Russ: which one?
Leah: I only have one love.
Russ: I know, Iím kidding with you.
Leah: uh-huh. Sheís getting a bad reputation you
Russ: who, your love?
Russ: for what?
Leah: for being harsh.
Russ: well, sheís got every right to be, look what
happens while she was gone?
Leah: didnít Mark tell you what she told us?
Russ: no what?
Leah: that there was a girl cleaning behind Mark
and sheís goingÖ.
Russ: oh yes.......
Leah: f'ing bitch, f'ing bitch,
Russ: oh yes, yes,
I heard that one.
Leah: oh you did? I thought that was hilarious.
Russ: that was pretty good, Iíll admit that.
Leah: uh-huh. Told the whole thing at the
breakfast table the other day, thought it was
Russ: well now Lyka didnít hear that.
Leah: she came back late last nightÖ
Russ: oh did she?
Leah: and then she was gone first thing this
morning and fortunately I'd finished my homework
so I spent all day kind of tired, I took a nap
before dinner so I'm much better. Didnít get any
sleep last night.
Russ: why should you? Your loveís in town.
Leah: uh-huh, we tried out what my sister's
Russ: what did she design?
Leah: oh she designed a strap-on.
Russ: another one?
Leah: no this is a special one, this is a
prototype because Lyka wants a baby, she wants my
Russ: oh that one.
Russ: yes, Iíve heard about that one.
Leah: itís set on a timer.
Russ: uh-huh, yes I have heard of that one.
Russ: so have you had a chance to really get
trying that out?
Leah: we tried it outÖ..
Russ: test driving it?
Leah: we gave it a test run last night.
Leah: it works good.
Russ: so, everyoneís happy with it?
Leah: uh-huh, now allís weíve got to do is get the
correct material to make artificial sperm.
Russ: well why donít you just get real sperm?
Leah: well itís going to have my DNA and Lykaís
Russ: oh thatís right.
Leah: and hopefully a guyís DNA to make it stable.
Russ: yeah you do need that extra chromosome
Leah: yes, because they make artificial sperm out
of my DNAÖ.
Leah: itís guaranteed to be a baby girl.
Russ: true, true.
Leah: and a baby girl that is sterile.
(Postscript: Leah and Lyka would have
eventual success with their method of
fertilization to where a baby girl would
be born and the progress can be found in
this channeling session posted )
starts side two from a different channeling
session than side one. We will finish though back
where we began)
Kiri: okay, getting down to some engineering
critiques, you definitely need some RF filters in
there. The omnidirectional microphone is working
at the maximum of its range. Also youíre getting
some bleeding from the wiring sensors in the radio
tuner there which can be minimized with using
Russ: there's only one little problem with that.
Russ: we don't have a radio tuner on there.
Kiri: okay so why is it picking up the radio
station if it doesnít have a tuner?
Russ: same way a phone does.
Kiri: okay you need to minimize that by putting
some filters in there of some kind.
Russ: yeah, Iíll have to probably figure something
out, I don't know what.
Kiri: uh-huh, okay.
Russ: but in the meantime levels look pretty good,
Iím getting green across the board.
Kiri: okay weíre online, everything looking fine,
okay. So what do you guys want to know?
Russ: well letís see, howís the pregnancy coming
Kiri: uncomfortable, my back hurts, I have a tiny
bladder, my feet are swelling, my fingers hurt, my
knees hurt, my back hurts, my stools are okay.
Marilynn: (laughs) well thanks for sharing.
Russ: there is a God.
Kiri: uh-huh. Iím not suffering from constipation,
my iron levels are good, Iím still keeping
reasonably in shape by doing a lot of walking.
Without giving out too much information, the
babyís developing fine, the babyís very talkative,
the baby definitely doesnít like hot, spicy foods
unlike Leonedies who seemed to revel in that
Russ: as I understand, the baby's also a girl.
Kiri: I never said that it was a girl.
Russ: Mark did.
Kiri: I never told Mark that it was a girl.
Kiri: I said it may or may not be a girl, it may
or may not be a boy, hence the reason why I have
been very gender-neutral.
Russ: oh okay.
Kiri: what Iím saying. I know what the baby is,
the baby knows what the baby is but weíre not
Russ: oh, okay, well thatís good I guess.
Russ: motherís prerogativeÖÖ
Russ: is all Iíve got to say.
Marilynn: motherís prerogative.
Kiri: mother and babyís prerogative.
Russ: mother and babyís
Marilynn: until birth.
Kiri: until birth.
Russ: thereís no hiding at that point.
Marilynn: then mother's prerogative no longer
Kiri: uh-huh. At least I donít have Tiaís problem
that I have to make a nest, she likes to make
nests when she gets pregnant. Itís a holdover
thing that she gets these urges to....much like
Iíve had urges for cream and mushrooms or raw
shrimps, things like that.
Russ: not cooked?
Kiri: not cooked.
Russ: so I understand your flower crop is looking
Kiri: it depends on how you look at it.
Russ: as in bad weather but good for you.
Russ: you sold them all I believe if I heard
Kiri: yes, yes, I sold them all and the highest
bidder gets the crops. Iím selling them in groups
of 12 so 12 flowers at the moment are running
close to about 30 cases is the highest offer so
Russ: for 12 flowers?
Russ: 30 cases?
Marilynn: I donít know what 30 cases means.
Russ: cases of wine.
Russ: yeah 12 bottles of wineÖ..
Russ: then you have 30 of those to get your 12
Russ: 30 cases of wine. And how many flowers are
you looking at?
Kiri: Iím looking at probably in one section I'm
definitely going to have 12 dozen, thatís in one
quarter and in the next quarter probably twice
that and in another quarter itís going to be half
of that and in the last quarter it may be only
probably three dozen. Thatís the area that's still
under deep snow right now.
Russ: thatís a lot of flowers.
Kiri: no not really.
Russ: itís a lot forÖ..
Kiri: itís about halfÖÖ
Russ: itís a lot of wine.
Kiri: itís about half of normal.
Russ: itís more wine than we could put in this
house at any one time.
Marilynn: well yeah.
Russ: we'd have to stop living here just to store
the wine here.
Kiri: uh-huh well I keep all of my wine in the
Russ: good call, I would too.
Russ: temperature controlledÖ.
Russ: easy to maintain.
Kiri: itís a unit deep, itís three units high and
two units across.
Russ: thatís in the fifth dimension.
Kiri: and itís not even a quarter full.
Russ: you need a big forklift to put stuff in
Kiri: no, I just put it in the doorway and push.
Getting it out is always a problem though.
Russ: that would be a bit of a problem, how do you
Marilynn: bottle by bottle.
Kiri: no what I actually do is I send a little
robot in that seeks out what I want and each one
is tagged and labeled so the robot can find it and
then it brings out the case.
Marilynn: well thatís handy.
Kiri: and I programmed it to do that. However
sometimes I have to build new ones as the last one
that I sent in there is still searching.
Russ: ďlook, there it is, up there on top. Oh gee,
itís a flat robot."
Kiri: no, no. No itís more along the lines of the
instability of a fifth dimensional workspace.
Russ: oh, tough for the little guys to get around
in there huh?
Kiri: uh-huh, I think itís lost in there
Kiri: do you know of the physics of fifth
Marilynn: uh-uh, no I donít.
Kiri: (sighs happily) okay, in fifth dimensional
space, things do not appear as they seem. For
example, Russ, find two objects of dissimilar
Russ: two objects of dissimilar size, that should
be fairly easy.
Kiri: preferably a matchbox and a....small
matchbox by the way, and a book.
Marilynn: how about a CD and a book?
Russ: how aboutÖ.?
Kiri: a cassette will work.
Russ: thereís a cassette next to you. I got the
cassette case and this box here which is slightly
Russ: grander size Iíd say.
Kiri: okay, now we have two objects here of
different proportional size. Now this is an
explanation of fifth dimensional space. Okay now
this one is bigger, in fact itís so big that we
cannot do this and it fits inside. Thank you. Okay
now, itís a perception thing, we put this one
hereÖ..okay, that one there is still bigger than
this one however, MarilynnÖ..
Marilynn: yes, I know this game.
Kiri: okay, now if you hold that one up in front
of that, in front of that oneÖ.
Marilynn: right, I can make it disappear.
Kiri: and that is one explanation of the
appearance of the fifth dimensional workspace that
that is actually bigger than that which isnít the
case because we know that that box there is bigger
than that cassette case. But it appears to be
bigger when you hold it up close.
Marilynn: so perception isÖ.
Kiri: thatís correct, perception is one of the
things to do with the fifth dimensional workspace.
That is part of how I can get over half a million
cases of wine into a broom closet.
Kiri: okay now the other thing about the fifth
dimensional workspace is that the laws donít stay
constant. For example, this, in the fifth
dimensional space......or in the third dimensional
space does this.
Kiri: now if I was to do that in a fifth
dimensional space it may end up on the ceilingÖ.
Kiri: or it could end up on the wall. Also,
because of the instability of the fifth
dimensional workspace, letís say you wanted to
walk out the doorÖ
Kiri: and go to the bathroom.
Kiri: in a fifth dimensional workspace you could
get up and start walking and on one occasion it
may be just a simple walking across the room and
into the bathroom. But, another time, you could
walk and take one step and the door is just as far
away as it was when you were sitting so you take a
second step and it appears the same distance and
you can walk and walk and walk and end up walking
for several hours all day and never get to the
door. But, if you were to turn around, walk out
through the glass door.....opening it first of
course.....and walk around, youíd get to the
Kiri: however, the next time that you try to do
that you may find that you can't get to that door
because that door is so far away that you keep
walking and walking and walking. Sometimes it
would be easier to walk up the wall, across the
ceiling and out the door instead of walking
directly towards it. So it varies from time to
time because of the instabilities. Okay, letís
answer some questions before I proceed.
Russ: has anybody in the third dimension ever
adequately explained the mechanics of the fifth
Kiri: not really, itís hard for us sometimes but
the fifth dimension has some very useful
properties. For example, the fact that you could
store vast quantities of stuff in there. There are
times where if it becomes too unstable, my broom
closet would start spewing cases of wine out until
it had closed down to be totally the reverse of
what appears to be right now. However, because of
the generators that are mounted within the
retaining walls of the broom closet that help to
create the stability, it won't do that. If I
remove those, it could double, quadruple in size
and the poor little robots I sent in to get my
various cases of wine that I want may be there
until whenever. But just as quickly as it can
expand, it can also contract and reverse the
Marilynn: so just like molecules with heat and
cold, that they expand with heat and become in
essence larger like steam or contract with cold
Kiri: thatís correct.
Marilynn: so you had the same volume but it does
change because of the speed of the molecules.
Kiri: thatís correct. With the fifth dimensional
space, it doesnít quite depend on hot or coldÖ..
Kiri: it depends on gravities.
Kiri: as the gravity changes and shifts it will
contract or expand. If the gravity is more dense,
it spreads it out more. If itís less dense, it
tends to contract to maintain the same space.
Marilynn: but you have the same mass?
Marilynn: so again like with third dimensional
with the masses neither created nor destroyedÖ..
Kiri: thatís correct.
Marilynn: itís in the same.....
Russ: I get it, so you have gravity generators
mounted on the walls to control its size.
Kiri: correct, to keep it constant and they have
to keep adjusting because it doesnít always stay
Russ: oh I get it. Do they have like a measuring
device on it that measures the gravity and adjust
it up to or down to that particular one you that
want to achieve?
Kiri: uh-huh, thatís correct.
Russ: so if the engines were to fail somehow you
could lose your entire stock of wine?
Kiri: uh-huh. It would either expand so rapidly
that the wine would be ripped to pieces with the
expansion or I could end up with bottles of wine,
each one being 10 foot tall or because of the
contraction, it would squash everything down and I
could end up with wine bottles this size.
Marilynn: are there any limitations in either
Kiri: it depends on the area that youíre using. If
youíre using for example my broom closet, there
are limitations on how far out it will stretch.
Kiri: it will stretch out to
approximately.....mathematics timeÖÖabout a mile
and a half. Thatís if the generators were to fail
or it would compress to a foot by a foot by a foot
Russ: half a million cases of wine into a foot by
Marilynn: small wine then.
Kiri: uh-huh, thatís the minimum. Now, hereís an
interesting thing, if the generators fail, I said
the wine would be pushed out, thatís not exactly
true, it would be better. If the generators
failed, the wine isnít destroyed, the same with if
it expands the wineís not destroyed. See what
youíve done? You've started me having difficulty
with words. But, what happens is as I hinted I
would have bottles of wine either 10 foot tall or
Marilynn: so even the contents accommodate theÖ.
Kiri: thatís correct.
Marilynn: should I say the holder of them. I mean
like if you had something within a balloonÖ.
Marilynn: and thatÖ..
Kiri: thatís actually a very good analogy is that
it is like a balloon.
Kiri: you blow up the balloon and it gets bigger
and it will hold more.
Kiri: you let the air out and it contracts and it
Marilynn: and do dimensionsÖÖsay you have
something thatís 10 x 10Ö..
Marilynn: and something 20 x 20Ö.
Marilynn: do they both have limits to their
expansion in consideration to their originalÖ..is
there an original size I guess is what Iím getting
to or is everything constantly moving? Everything
adjusting at all timesÖÖÖ
Kiri: everything is adjusting at all times however
with the stability generators, it minimizes that.
The generators themselves actually adjust to keep
Marilynn: itíd be a real shame to go out of your
abode whatever it'd be and it'd just be smaller
and you couldn't get back in.
Kiri: uh-huh, it would be a shame yes.
Russ: it sounds like youíre almost harnessing the
power of a tame blackhole without the incredible
Kiri: hmm, that would be one way to describe it is
a tame blackhole but itís not because a blackhole
is actually intense gravity, this is not intense
Marilynn: it can be absence of gravity.
Russ: well it canít be absence.
Kiri: well the gravity helps to keep the
Russ: you have to keep everything on the ground,
the absence of gravity would be all floating
Russ: that be a real mess for the robots.
Kiri: uh-huh, it would be, it would be.
EverythingÖ..gravity is applied in the normal
means that you understand but itís not always as
it seems. The perception part is something that is
very useful. For example I made the statement that
you could walk up walls, you quite literally can
and your perception would be that people would be
sitting on the walls or holding onto the walls to
stop themselves from falling off.
Russ: do people go bonkers studying the fifth
dimension in sixth dimension?
Marilynn: yeah the absence of gravity doesnít mean
Iím not saying no gravity, Iím just saying that
different levels of gravity. I mean thereís
different on each planet, there is a different
Marilynn: and less and more, so......and even the
moon isn't without gravity to my knowledge, itís
just a much differentÖ.
Kiri: itís one fifth of your earth gravity.
Marilynn: right, so itís just a differentÖ..
Kiri: uh-huh. That's correct and itís all to do
with the relative mass of the size of the body.
For example, the moon is about 1/5 the size of
your planet correct?
Kiri: so the gravity is one fifth.
Kiri: whereas if you look at somewhere much
larger, let us take one of our favorite heavenly
bodies TiaÖ..I mean Jupiter, and have a look at
it, at the core the gravity is so intense that if
you were to go to the core you would be about half
an inch thick and about 8 miles wide. Or even less
than half an inch, you see?
Marilynn: I think I do understand as best I could.
Kiri: okayÖ..itís a little tricky, itís little
tricky. Donít underestimate yourself, youíre
actually extremely smart and you know that.
Russ: time would have a funny thing to do with the
Kiri: how do you mean?
Russ: well, because the fourth dimension would
intrude on the fifth dimension at some point.
Kiri: well doesnít the second dimension also
intrude on the third?
Russ: right so time interacting on the fifth
dimension would probably screw up your time
perception as bad as your distance and directional
Kiri: not as much as you think.
Kiri: does time affect the third dimension?
Kiri: in the normal, linear line that you are used
Kiri: and it does in the same way in the fifth,
time does pass. It doesnít pass any more rapidly
or any more slowly but it is slightly different.
Russ: hmm, okay and then again itís slightly
different in the sixth.
Russ: so your perception of time is different from
our perception of time.
Kiri: yes. The fact that, to use one of Skipís
phrases, I am a snot nosed kid is quite true even
though Skip and myself are only I think six months
to a year younger than Skip?
Kiri: in my time, Iím a snot nosed kid, I can live
up to a thousand years old.
Russ: well thatís pretty young for most people in
these higher dimensions.
Russ: okay Iím starting to get a better idea of it
anyway of what takes place in the fifth but......
Kiri: itís not always as it appears which is the
most important thing.
Russ: but the fact is that youíre able to harness
Russ: and use it as a bit of a tool.
Kiri: yes, itís also a very useful teaching tool
to understand things.
Russ: what, stick somebody in a room in the fifth
dimension for an hour?
Kiri: yeah, about that.
Marilynn: a whole new meaning to timeout.
Kiri: uh-huh. Well it's also can be quite
torturous especially if you have a disposition
towards indulging in vast quantities of food. You
can put a plate of food in down in front of
somebody and maybe or maybe not they could get to
Russ: thatíd tame your alcoholism in a heartbeat.
Kiri: uh-huh. Yeah an example is that you do have
a glass of wine sitting on a table right in front
of you and you can reach for the glass of wine and
itís just as far away, so you lean further and
it's still just as far away but if you get up and
walk around to the other side of the tableÖ.
Russ: reminds me of a dream I had once, something
very similar to that happened to me once.
Russ: itís very disconcerting.
Kiri: the one I like is where I put my arms up
just like this and somebody thinks Iím standing on
Kiri: uh-huh, Iíve done that just to goof with
people. Iíve actually stood on my head and
somebodyís walked into a fifth dimensional space
and they look at me and they're like, ďKiri, are
you standing on the floor or are you standing on
your head?Ē And Iíll tell them Iím standing on the
floor which really plays with them.
Marilynn: Iím sure.
Kiri: uh-huh. See Iím used to the fifth
dimensional workspace, I use it sometimes for
Russ: what good would that come?
Kiri: ohhh thereís lots of goods that can come
from it. By amplifying the local gravitational
field, I can take a microcircuit board thatís this
big and I can make it this big.
Kiri: which means?
Russ: it would help in your robotic work.
Kiri: uh-huh or did I let a little trade secret
Russ: you possibly mightíve of.
Russ: well itís not one we can use down here.
Marilynn: well alrighty.
Kiri: how do you think I make such beautiful and
powerful little robots that stand yea tall?
Russ: whatís interesting though is, if youíre able
to manipulate the fifth dimension on the sixth
Russ: how come we canít manipulate the fifth
dimension in the third dimension because we're not
past it yet or itís the fact that we donít have
the technology to do so?
Kiri: both, you need one to get to the other to
achieve the other. Now, also there are some very
interesting things that you can do with a fifth
dimensional space. As Iíve already stated, you can
take a circuitry board that is that big, make it
that big, that big or however big you want it and
you can go through the wiring process. And then by
removing the gravitational field that youíre using
to either stretch or contract, you can go back to
the original size but it will never be smaller
than the original size.
Kiri: you can make it bigger, much, much biggerÖÖ.
Russ: why canít it get smaller if the wines can
Kiri: I can make it smaller but once I take it out
it returns to its normal size, let me clear that
Russ: oh okay, that makes sense.
Kiri: for example, if I was to take the bottles of
wine that are yea big, bring them out and as I
bring them out they become bigger.
Russ: well letís say 500,000 cases and you put
them all in the size of a shoeboxÖ
Russ: you wouldn't want to take the shoebox out at
Kiri: no, because the weight would be such that it
would be impossible to lift it. See the weight
Russ: oohhh, that makes a difference.
Kiri: the volume inside doesnít change.
Russ: I see.
Kiri: it justÖ..
Marilynn: becomes more dense.
Kiri: thatís correct, that was the word I was
looking for. It wasn't in....well it is in my
vocabulary but itís difficult sometimes for me to
call up words.
Marilynn: I understand.
Kiri: yeah. Anyway, coercion.......
Kiri: now weíve covered the moral ethics, Russ is
probably sick and tired of me going over the moral
Russ: no actually, they're quite handy to always
Kiri: uh-huh. Okay, self-gratification is a no-no
with coercion. For example, coercing some guy to
come and join me for some fun, thatís a no-no.
Coercing somebody to do something that is
beneficial to myself, thatís a no-no. Coercing
somebody to do something that is good for their
health, it depends. It depends on whether or not
it will subtract or add to their learning lesson.
Okay, letís say that they need to learn in their
life that drinking is going to kill them. Let us
say I could coerce somebody to stop drinking but,
theyíve got to learn that drinking will kill them
and theyíve got to stop on their own, if I stop
them they learn nothing. However letís say that
they're the sole supporter of offspring. If I
coerce them to stop drinking, Iím now affecting
their children who will continue to be able to
function as a family. One is good, one is bad. By
taking away the learning lesson, that is bad but
by protecting other people by keeping them from
learning that lesson is good. So thereís a moral
dilemma there, which you do? Do you let them carry
on in their own little world and destroy
themselves and have to come to the conclusion
possibly when itís too late that it's bad for them
or do I intervene and coerce them to stop
drinking? Which do I do, which would you do Russ?
Russ: I would basically convince them of the fact
that the realities of the situation are that do
they want a happy, long life or do they want to
short kind of life? I mean they have to look at
their responsibilities and theyíve got a put them
on a scale.
Kiri: you havenít answered the question. The
question is not how you stop them from drinking,
do you coerce them to stop drinking or do you not
Russ: well thatís the moral dilemma there isnít
Russ: I mean, for myself, I'd say yes, Iíd stop
the drinking, they've got kids.
Russ: theyíve got other people besides themselves
to be responsible for, drinking isn't going to
make that any better......
Russ: and if I coerce them, they think they did it
Kiri: okay MarilynÖ.
Kiri: what do you think?
Marilynn: kids are involved right?
Marilynn: well youíre destroying more than just
one life if the kids are around an alcoholic
Marilynn: so in deference to the indefensible
which are basically childrenÖ.
Marilynn: I believe that one should use coercion
Kiri: there actually is no correct answer, there
is no answer. It is one of the questions that is
posed to us but it is actually using addiction to
other things, not alcohol but I changed it to suit
the third dimension.
Kiri: it is one that you have to justify yourself
that do you intervene? Now, the next level to that
is maybe itís the childrenís purpose in life to
learn how to deal with that situation which makes
it harder. When you have one person alone, do you
interfere in an alcoholicís life to straighten
them out on their path or is it something that
they have to learn to deal with to learn all the
problems relating to alcoholism?
Russ: well weíve addressed this problem numerous
times in numerous situations with different
scenarios every time.
Russ: and I think the most common thread we
finally reached was the fact that if you do
nothing, then that's what youíre supposed to do,
if you do something then thatís what youíre
supposed to do.
Kiri: but it depends on each circumstance.
Kiri: so the learning path is the important thing.
The morals that come with coercion is, making a
decision on when to interfere. You can definitely
say self-gratification is a no-no. It gets more
difficult the further you progress into it. For
example, the alcoholic. Weíve covered that, weíve
covered both the single alcoholic and alcoholic
responsible for other people. Let us say that the
alcoholic now is somebody that you care about,
somebody important in your life. Do you coerce
that person to stop being an alcoholic?
Russ: I think you got to ask yourself the
question, are you doing it for you or are you
doing it for them?
THE TAPE ENDS