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Tia: going better than you guys are going.  

Russ: you can say that again. 

(It had been raining cats and dogs for an extended length of time.)

Tia: well?

Russ: well you heard Mark and I discussing the economic issue.

Tia: oh, yes, the economic issue.

Russ: I'm looking, and I think we have discussed it before but the welfare reform as being a triggering effect for a scenarios B or C coupled with a collapse in the economy. Mainly a depression or recession, deep recession. 

(Possible scenarios as described in the Defcon messages from the time.)

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: I wanted to get your views on that.

Tia: well, there are other contributing factors that go into that, not just a recession.

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: increase in frivolous expenditure. For example, feel good programs to make people feel good about buying cars that they already own. Programs that are frivolous.

Russ: got that out of "Dave"?

Tia: yeah I did actually, cribbed that but they do have programs like that. You see the Democratic party seems to be interested in one thing and one thing only, power.

Russ: well it beats the Republicans who are only interested in money.

Tia: well money is a useful tool. Power, absolute power does what?

Russ: corrupts absolutely? Okay, so we got frivolous expenditures out of the way.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: what are some other contributing factors?

Tia: okay, the government bickering and arguing over factors such as shutting down the government itself. Feel-good programs that actually do nothing. For example, saving fictional endangered species, stopping alternative growth, buying external oil when the country is quite capable of supporting itself using ethanol as opposed to petroleum products. Expenditures like that, that drain the very financial lifeblood from the country.

Russ: well let's remember the country's not the one who buys the oil, the gas companies are.

Tia: the gas companies could easily buy internally, change over to ethanol which works just as well as petroleum products.

Russ: well the government doesn't control the gas companies.

Tia: they do. True they do not control the gas companies but they can control the imports and exports. Sending military forces overseas to protect VITAL oil resources. One third of the United States Armed Forces are overseas protecting oil resources which is frivolous when your country is quite capable of surviving totally independently without importing petroleum products. These external frivolous expenditures are a drain on the people because who has to pay these men that are overseas? Who has to pay for their transport? Who has to pay for their food? Who has to pay for their clothing? Who has to pay for their entertainment? You guys do. The further they are away the more it costs, the longer they're overseas the more it costs. 

Russ: okay well let me go ahead and put for the sake of the tape what Mark and I were discussing tonight.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: and that was the fact that the government is now working on various forms of welfare reform......

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: namely taking welfare from illegal immigrants and minorities. By doing so, they are getting upset a group of people who, if there was a recession, wouldn't take much to go ahead and go over the limits.....

Tia: uh-huh. 

Russ: or go over the top causing the scenarios where we do see chaos in the cities.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: so with that, is it better to hope against welfare reform or go with that?

Tia: it depends on what path you wish to go down.

Russ: okay, explain the different paths then that we...

Tia: okay, let's say welfare reform doesn't happen.

Russ: okay.

Tia: right? But a recession does.

Russ: all right.

Tia: okay, everybody suffers.

Russ: correct.

Tia: everybody suffers equally but it's not that bad and recovery does happen but it takes time. It takes time to get back to where you are now.

Russ: right.

Tia: a long time, a 100 years at least. Now let us assume welfare does occur and the crash happens and all the right circumstances occur to facilitate rioting, mass disobedience and so on. There is one of many things that could happen. One is that the government re-institutes welfare programs, food stamps and so on but that doesn't really help because there is no money anyway because where does the money come from? The people and the people have to pay these other people to have food.

Russ: hmm.

Tia: so in actual fact they're taking money from one group and giving it to another group forcibly which upsets the other group you see?

Russ: hmm.

Tia: let us say that there was no re-institution of welfare right? The group that is worse off in actual fact in the long run is better off because they go through the suffering and the growth and the learning and understanding the necessary behavioral patterns that are needed to be stronger and they will recover quicker. The people that have had money squirreled away will spend their money and spend their money and spend their money until they achieve the status of the first group but the first group is already recovering. They know how to recover. The other group who has lived fat and luxurious lives don't. They suffer, they go to the government, they beg, they whine, they riot, they fight, they cause problems dragging the first group back down with them so therefore the disobedience happens all over again but much more nastier this time. The government has to step in and institute programs. So things occur that forces the level of learning to be learned the harsh way. The recovery rate in this I should say is about 30 to 50 years. So, when they re-achieve their balance, it is not the parents but the offspring that know how to proceed and how to go on from where they were. This brings into play an enlightened, accelerated purpose. I think Mark mentioned something along those lines didn't he?

Russ: uh-huh.

Tia: not as well detailed though. So that it occurs much more rapidly and the development of the mind, because of the suffering is needed whereas the long slow, insidious decline in the first part I discussed creates a lackadaisy attitude, it prolongs the growth. It's like if you go out and prune roses. You prune them hard and the first year they don't come back very well, the second year they come back a bit better and the third year they bloom incredibly. Now if you're only pruning them lightly, the following year they bloom beautifully. The year after that they bloom not so well and they become a little bit woody and long. The third-year they bloom a few flowers but have put out quite a bit of growth and again get very woody and you have to prune them back hard. That is the way that scenario B and C look. The harsh pruning is scenario C, the light pruning is scenario B.

Russ: hmm, so there's a difference between a 100 years and 30 to 50 years essentially.

Tia: uh-huh, basically yeah.

Russ: and scenarios A, the good scenario, isn't happening at all.

Tia: I don't see it happening.

Russ: okay.

Tia: so you are in either B+, A- almost or scenario B.

Russ: okay. So welfare reform as itself won't bring about scenario C?

Tia: no, not on its own.

Russ: no, quite a few contributing factors.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: now what about the fact that the middle class is shrinking? Won't that add to the bulk of the people who would get fed up with many of these different programs that you are talking about as contributing factors?

Tia: well the definition of the middle class keeps on chopping and changing, it's really hard to define what the middle class is. To start off with when your current president was elected it was anybody that earned over $250,000 a year was upper-class. Which meant anybody below that but earned more than $20,000 were middle-class. Then it changed to anybody that earns over a $100,000. All of a sudden there is a whole group that earned a $150,000 more than a $100,000 that were taken out. They suddenly got shunted into the upper-class hence the shrinkage. Then suddenly, the middle class became anybody that earned under $70,000. Bang, there goes another load of people up into the upper-class bracket. Very clever manipulation here if you think about it. What's it doing? It's creating class envy, it is creating the environment where a group of individuals that are power-hungry can get control over the people that are disgruntled, the middle class and the lower class by saying, "look at all these people that have suddenly made it into the upper-class, the wealthy class." Very clever move.

Russ: yes but won't the upper-class be the ones who will be the last to learn?

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: I mean, even though they have more opportunities and more chance to study, they really don't take advantage of that. They're only interested in enjoying the fruits of their labors.

Tia: no, you would be surprised how many are actually spiritually aware and involved.

Russ: maybe their wives or daughters or sons or something maybe........

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: but not they themselves.

Tia: no, what did I say about the ones that matter? It's not the parents......

Russ: right.

Tia: it's the kids.

Russ: okay, now with that happening then, like you say they'll be more insulated from this but they'll still come down the ladder a ways.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: and that's when the real learning will take place?

Tia: correct.

Russ: I see. But in the meantime, those who have already been through it will already be starting on the way out, recovering.

Tia: correct.

Russ: ahh, okay. Well that's all good for me.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: I'll be on the way out.

Tia: whilst they're coming down.

Russ: right.

Tia: uh-huh.

Russ: now, where does that leave for those of us who have already learned from this to those who are coming down to that point before they start back up? We'll be as teachers then?

Tia: correct. Teachers, helpers. 

Russ: okay. Now on the other hand, we have a system in place now that will allow us to recover and start to teach. But you're saying.....let's say we go into the easier scenario where's there 30 to 50 years. Could you break that down into more or less when people start coming down and when people start coming up?

Tia: yes I could but it would take me quite a while tonight because I would have to..... 

Russ: we don't have the time.

Tia: well not so much the time as I would be thinking out loud and saying, "no, this works.....no, no, no, no it doesn't work, let's try it this way." And I would take up a lot of time going over matters in my mind trying to get to the goal that you are trying to achieve.

Russ: okay well if you could maybe.....

Tia: work on the format and a formula for it.

Russ: just break it down so it's just an open mic night kind of thing.

Tia: really want to work me don't you?

Russ: at your leisure darling.

Tia: okay.

Russ: take a year, two years. 

Tia: hmm.

Russ: I'll just put it "to be continued section" after this.

Tia: oh, okay, to be continued.

Russ: Tia continues her discussion on scenarios.

Tia: okay but the main things look out for is continuing frivolous expenditure, stock market going hot dogs and all of a sudden going kablooy. Welfare reform which is both a Republican and a Democratic issue as well as a presidential issue. What else? There's about six or seven other things that I can't think of at the moment.

Russ: just save it for when we do the continuation.

Tia: okay. But this will be the precursors to a desperate situation.

Russ: okay.

Tia: any questions?

Russ: uh-uh.

Tia: you sure?

Russ: uh-hmm. 

Tia: okay. I'll be back.

Russ: I know. 

Tia: I am ring mistress. The way that you put it on the internet that Tia comes back in between speakers, you ought to say that Tia is the coordinator that introduces the next speakers.

Russ: I'll work on your section there.

Tia: thank you.
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